I am reading a book by Francis Chan. It is titled, "Crazy Love". I have become very uncomfortable. Let me quote a bit of it….
"As I see it, a lukewarm Christian is an oxymoron. To put it plainly, churchgoers who are lukewarm are not Christians. We will not see them in heaven." ~Chan
Chan backs up this radical statement with God's Word….
“I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will vomit you out of my mouth. " Jesus
So it seems we have very important decision to make. Will we continue to be lukewarm? Maybe….
You may disagree with the radicalness of the statement. It bothers me, also. But in your discomfort, the truth has to be reconciled. The only way I can see around it as to accept it as truth or pick and choose what part of the Bible I choose to believe. After all, I do like the peace and prosperity part. I'm just sayin'..
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Hi Archie;
For those who think that following the rules are not as important than faith, this fellow seems to disagree.
And the cycle goes on.
Don’t you find all this legalese a bit tiresome ofter a while?
Remember that Jesus also railed against scribes, pharisees and hypocrites. These groups love legalese. It gives them power, for no one in their right mind can understand them.
Who on this world has not been lukewarm, and is lukewarm even a bad thing?
That is the question. What about Thomas, he was there and doubted. Does doubting make one lukewarm or human?
Pulled from 37stories in Facebook…
Teri Undreiner Did you take a moment of silence before you said that?
8 hours ago ·
Archie Rhines My heart trembles. Did you read the blog?
8 hours ago ·
Teri Undreiner Yes.. No mention of going to hell in that verse. We are assuming that is what Jesus meant when he talked about vomiting a church out of his mouth. I’ve been doing a very interesting study on the word, “hell”. If you look closely at the verse, it doesn’t say what hot or cold meant either. Cold hearted? Hot like fervor? It is an interesting study of words. Why would a jew say that? What was in the mind of a jew to say that? What connection could it have with Jonah being vomited out? Go deeper….and then , deeper still….
8 hours ago ·
Archie Rhines Am always open to truth… Am not pigheaded. Am not trapped by preconceived ideas. Just seeking truth… Thank you.
8 hours ago ·
Teri Undreiner Was Jesus saying , ” it makes me sick when you have so much and know so little? So… either be cold towards me( no knowledge) or hot.( knowing and believing) That I can understand. But, to know WHAT I have done and given you, and be apathetic? Now, that’s sickening. Maybe.. But, Hell? Against His nature to send the church to hell. He was talkking to the church, not those who were just “church goers”. Called out ones.
When I give something wonderful to my kids and watch them not care? It makes me sick. But… I would never send them to hell for it. I might “give them hell” such as saying I want to vomit you out of my mouth but not send them to destruction. something to think about. 🙂
8 hours ago ·
Archie Rhines Great thought and I will think…
8 hours ago ·
Teri Undreiner I’m reading a great book that I have misplaced at the moment called, ” Hope Beyond Hell”.. Can’t find it to give you the author. He goes into history and translations on the word, hell”. It’s very interesting and good to read. Of course, you will get into trouble with the majority of the church by reading it. Kinda like, Darin Hufford and Viola and those” who are those guys?”.
8 hours ago ·
Joey Pierson Let me preface this by saying I serve God to serve God, I do not want to go to hell or get cast to the lake of fire . That said I am not serving God just to get into heaven . I live my life for Him because he is Him. So let me tell you this, he may forgive who so ever he wants to, whenever he wants to . This does not give us a license to sin . Just a reminder not to covet thy neighbors favor with the most high God, we should serve him, and spread the Gospel .Then, Let God sort out the rest of His business.
8 hours ago ·
Archie Rhines Thanks Joey. Not to be offensive, but tell me again real simply…
8 hours ago ·
Archie Rhines Oh and I like the part about God doing whatever He likes…
8 hours ago ·
Mary Landry Your right Archie, God will spew you out of his mouth if you straddle the fence with one foot on both sides. It, simply means be all you can be without doubt?
8 hours ago ·
Teri Undreiner “Ever learning but not coming to the knowledge of the truth”. Often that is because we do not understand the contexts Jesus said things in or why. We have such a “western” mentality and put our assumptions on what he meant because we still come from a viewpoint that he is “against” us or wants” more” from us before He will be satisfied. I think if …
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8 hours ago ·
Archie Rhines I thought being saved was simple? I am chuckling, but sad for the lost…
8 hours ago ·
Teri Undreiner I don’t like the part” God does whatever he likes” , and this is why. 1 Cor. 13 says ” Love never seeks it’s own way”. Therefore, if God is love, He doesn’t do whatever He likes. He is not rude. He isn’t unkind. He isn’t Proud. He rejoices not in evil. ETC….He is exactly what love commands us to be.
8 hours ago ·
Archie Rhines Well, time to go to the assembly and worship God. Hope there is no spewing today…
8 hours ago ·
Teri Undreiner You have already been “in” the assembly and worshipping God my friend. Go and continue!
8 hours ago ·
Teri Undreiner It is very simple. Just not always easy.
8 hours ago ·
Joey Pierson @ Teri He does do whatever he wants, he just chooses to love . We do not have to like it, but it is reality. Simply put it is not for man to decide who goes to heaven or hell. It is our purpose to spread the gospel and be obedient to our callings.
8 hours ago ·
Joey Pierson To be separated from God is death, and death is Hell . Or is it ? I really do not know, non of us do, and I would rather not find out.
7 hours ago ·
Teri Undreiner Joey….He is love. He can’t do anything else.It is His nature. I’m a woman. I can’t be a man . I can’t change my nature. I am what I am. He is Love. He doesn’t have to choose it. He IS love.
It is my purpose to love God and out of that, I share the gospel naturally. . That is my calling.” To love God and enjoy Him forever.”
7 hours ago ·
Joey Pierson He will also love who so ever he ” chooses ” to cast down to the gates of hell . God is love, and he is also a perfect judge . It is very important for us all to find our callings, it is great that you found yours my sister .
7 hours ago ·
Teri Undreiner Then the interesting thing to find out what was meant by ” casting down to the gates of hell”.:) I love these discussions. They are important. ” As Iron sharpens iron”. It challenges us to go deeper. To think through things rather than assume what everything means. 🙂 Isn’t it all of our callings?
7 hours ago ·
Joey Pierson No for example I pull teenage prostitutes and single mothers with their children out of crack houses , feed the violent homeless, and minister to the lost of the lost . Help them become Saints of God, Care to join me ? Or perhaps your reality of a Jesus that does nothing but love is a better vision for you . When he comes back, he will come to take his people and ” Destroy ” the rest . This watered down Jesus everyone is preaching is going to confuse the new believers, we are accountable for who we help and hurt.
7 hours ago ·
Joey Pierson Oh and the drug dealer that messed up that single mother, I will visit him in prison because he needs Salvation too…..
7 hours ago ·
Teri Undreiner I do join you. Mine is foster kids and prison too. But.. I don’t think of that as a calling but i get your point. Those things still come naturally from loving I think. You sound mad. I’m sorry. I think you are reacting to those who say they have faith but no works to prove it. I’m not one of them.
7 hours ago ·
Joey Pierson No Sis not angry , but the reality is not all will go to heaven . We really do not know who will make it, and who won’t. 1Peter1:22 is your point, and it is well taken . Jesus ” The Lamb of God ” is Love, he showed us a more excellent way to Serve the Most High God in which he was in incarnate form of . God loves all of his creations including the enemy. That is the truth, and the enemy is still the enemy. We must be very careful when we start preaching Love, young believers will scratch at the toe nails of Daniel and turn it into false doctrine. That is my point.
7 hours ago ·
Teri Undreiner Read, ” Hope Beyond Hell”. The church down thru the ages hasn’t provided a totally accurate picture of the “place”. You are right about none of us knowing what it is. But… there are alot of theologians who differ greatly in their study of it. I prefer to be more careful with that than Love. That’s just what I have learned in the 45 years of knowing God. I could be wrong but I think we may all be somewhat surprised. The whole context of scripture is what I look at and all the things that have been “added” or “inserted” by translators.
I know what you are saying. Interesting that he loves our/his enemy. Kind of like King Arthur?
7 hours ago ·
Justin Kuek Good on you Terri… what Joey states as your “calling” is for anyone who loves God…
I agree with you that it IS simple… Evangelicals have a strange idea of god’s salvation… I believe that the bible teaches that when we are saved by God, it is a PERFECT salvation, one that cannot be lost. To say so would be to water down the reality of Grace.
7 hours ago ·
Joey Pierson Theologians are educated based on what tradition says . None of us know, God is to huge for our little minds to comprehend .I will tell you this. Abraham, Issac, and Jacob did not have a bible. They had a relationship, this is what we must focus on . Les people end up in a room with hypocritical, judging church goers that mean well. @ Justin, you …
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7 hours ago ·
Justin Kuek Grace is NOT Grace unless people misunderstand it and accuse you or preaching Sin!!
@ Joey – you raise many good points too, and I did not mean to “ignore” you…
7 hours ago ·
Joey Pierson @ Justin Case in Point . We can discuss these things as Sis. Teri very well put..Iron Sharpens Iron, but my word, it is too deep for most that will read it .For the one saying the sinners prayer today, they would need to be bi lingual to understand what we are discussing. I just don’t wanna chase anyone off. We should have a not so public blog.
6 hours ago ·
Justin Kuek Your comments remind me of our seminars in Africa, where Pastors will often say to us, “What you are teaching is REAL meat and is very good… BUT you cannot teach this to the young Christians in Church otherwise you will have lawlessness!”
I don’t doubt what you say is true… BUT what a sad commentary on American Christianity, when so called “younger” Christians are confused with the basic fundamentals of the faith…. 😦
5 hours ago ·
Joey Pierson Very true. I am less concerned with the actual age of the person, and more so of the spiritual maturity. Are you still a Kiwi, or have you moved ?
5 hours ago ·
Justin Kuek Hi Joey,
I am not talking about spiritual age either… I am talking about political correctness within the church power system which is driven by an old covenant theology… Strangely enough – it is the young people (an spiritually young) that easily accept this teaching!! I have “given up” debating with the “pharisees”, as they have already made up their minds or have too much to loose – and so will not change…
I am a Malaysian – currently based out of New Zealand. We are trying to model a dynamic, and real approach to serving God as believers, and an approach to missions that does not depend on the availability of $$$ to determine outcomes…
4 hours ago ·
I am not a theologian. I believe simply what God”s word says. Context of the Revelation reference is a very important key. The meaning of the words in the original
language is the key. I do not know Greek or Hebrew, etc.
Read Revelation 3: 14 – 22.
John 10: 28 “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand.”
Hebrews 13:5 —I will never leavae you or forsake you.
Hi Archie;
Interesting discussion. Remember Thomas and Judas and Peter?
Now Judas was remorseful, Thomas doubted and Peter denied it three times.
Kind of lukewarm to me don’t you think?
If that is the case and they are apostles, does anyone have a chance? I think this is a prime example of the stuff Jesus did not want to happen, and it is.
Thank you for your comments. I do believe it is impossible to lose one’s salvation. I’m just not so sure it may be as easy to gain it…. Faith without works is dead….
Wow how people can wish things away…1st of all spue means to vomit….what is Jesus doing? vomiting people to heaven?… never get this twisted…. Obeying God is not legalism… Its not works either… Many people in that day will say Lord Lord did we not do “MANY MIRACLES” in your name…These people are professing Christians…. I have never met any unbeleiver that would do miracles in the name of Jesus… so these people are Professing Christians… guess where he sent them to? Hell and outerdarkness where their will be weeping and nashing of teeth… He also said He did not know them… He also called them evil and wicked… Ball is in your court and to accept truth even if its uncomfortable